Instructor Development and 1403

Replies to This Discussion

PermalinkReply byTony PiontekonApril 20, 2008 at 5:56pm

1 - Yes we use a fixed burn building, class a combustibles are used as fuel.

2 - Wisconsin has no LFT requirements past the cert1,2,3 levels. Usually the instructor with the most experience is the lead, meaning the one that has coordinated the most, not necessarily the most years. Try to work in pairs, assistant lead, similar to a division/sector chief. We do multiple scenarios on a "burn day", some interior, some exterior. One is in charge of coordinating each.

3 - Criteria is listed above, the instructors with less experience usually bow out on their own, they're just not comfortable...a good guide if you ask me.

4 - We are not at full compliance at the burn facility...we are when using acquired structures. Sounds wierd, but I think you'll find it more often than not. Dual roles for IC and safety, numbers are always 5:1 or less, safety lines in place. The biggest problem here is $$...they won't pay to have the correct number of instructors so we dual role it. Not right, so we either come out for free (which is done regularly) or slow everything down and concentrate on the numbers, go to 4 or 3 to 1. The big help here is experienced instructors who know when to say "whoa", have a written plan that they stick to, don't go overboard and push the training past where it can go.

PermalinkReply byGreg WildonApril 20, 2008 at 6:39pm

Tony,
Thanks for the input, I appreciate it.
Greg

PermalinkReply byBrian ArnoldonApril 21, 2008 at 11:05am

Hey UL,
Great questions and I bet you'll get a wide variety of answers.

1. We have access for our department thru the Vo-tech fire training center for a "fixed burn facility" and flashover trainer. We have always felt it was needed to teach both the mechanics of hose line techniques as well as recognizing different environments. We burn class A materials in the form of excelsior, hay and pallets. We also use smoke machines for second floor operations to reduce visibility for students. (TIC's for the instructors to monitor)

2. Oklahoma currently has no set policy for qualifications for Live fire instructor. Since I've got the best of both worlds at the department and the school, we have implemented a mandatory 1403 and Fixed burn facility class for any instructor that wishes to participate in LFT at the training center. This includes all positions and not just interior operations.

3. Since the departments are using the fire training facility out at the school we are the AHJ; the school gets to set the standard and we are solid about it. Attend the class or don't participate! We require the class even if an outside department wants to use the facility with only the school's site safety person. And by the way, the school offers the class FREE of charge to allow any and all local departments to send instructors or potential instructors.

4.所有融通是完全兼容或不运行。The IC and Safety for the day are held accountable for the evolutions and to ensure that it is a manageable scenario. If we have number problems with instructors we will axe a component of the evolution like search, and pick it back up as a single station evolution. We set up to do single station evolutions all the way to a typical full blown structure fire evolution. Obviously, the more complex the evolutions the more instructors that must be present. A min. of 12 instructors are used each time we run a full facility scenario and we usually try and schedule 16 just in case....It can be expensive if you aren't using instructors that have volunteered their time, but what's a FF life worth? After all, we are using real fire!

See ya'
Brian

PermalinkReply byGreg WildonApril 21, 2008 at 12:57pm

Hey Brian,

Once again, it was nice to spend some time and talk again @ FDIC. It sure would be nice to get the group together every 6 months or so!

Thanks for the input. Our T/C, although smaller than yours is managed the same way. We are also in complete compliance with the standard not only during evolutions, but the paper trail as well.

Thanks again and stay safe!
UL

PermalinkReply byDrew SmithonApril 22, 2008 at 8:38pm

We have access to a few different fixed facilities for LFT. Some are masonry towers, some are metal and some are ntermodal containers modified. The brick and block work best as they retain heat between evolutions.

IL has not LFT regulations although our state instructor assoc. offers an NFPA 1403 class. In my department, no LFT is conducted without me being on site althoug we are at a point where after several years of LFT in towers and acquired structures I am comfortable we will be able to pass the torch. We require formal training: Fire Officer 1/Inst 1 for all instructors. We also require several days of experience as a stoker.

When we are at the tower we comply with the back up line requirement by having a 2&1/2 right off the hydrant and finishing it with 50' X 1&3/4 with solid boore nozzle. We too some times double up on the jobs of SO and IC, BUT NEVER WITH CANDIDATES. We as the AHJ interpret the hose line requirement that the hose line be capable of flowing at least 95 GPM but that it does not have to. WIth that said, the main line is usually a solid bore with 15/16 tip and a 1/4" brass tip so we do not overkill the fire. If needed, the 1/4 inch tip can be spinned off to get the 180 GPM. We also have some old Akron and Elkhart 1&1/2 fog nozzles that can be dialed down to 30 or 60 GPM to achieve the same effect. We always have three lines: Main 1&3/4, Back Up 1&3/4 and the 2&1/2 off the hydrant for the OMG/WTF situation.

PermalinkReply byGreg WildonApril 23, 2008 at 5:33am

Thanks Drew, I appreciate your input!
Greg

PermalinkReply byJay RobinsononMay 5, 2008 at 1:25am

I have the unique experience to have access to a 'burn building' with class A materials as well as Flam Liq. props. AND a burn building in the city that is strictly Nat. Gas. I haven't been able to see the Nat. Gas in action yet but from what I hear its totally way too safe and way too unrealistic. Any of you's guy's found a way to make the Nat. Gas a little more realistic?

Lemme paint a better pic. The Class A facility is the State Training Academy. The Nat. Gas prop is the City of Seattle's Training Facility.

Thanks

PermalinkReply byGreg WildonMay 5, 2008 at 7:36am

Jay,

We have a 5 story with natural gas on the 4th floor and a 2 story with class "A" on the 2nd and natural on the first.

There is ALWAYS some complaints when we are only providing the natural gas fires, until after when there is no cleanup. They always complain about it being unrealistic. Of course, we all know that this is true, but we must remember that we are training on skills and tactics, not heat. The gas fire simply adds a target for them after all the work is done. It is a tough sell, but maybe concentrating on the tactics and not the extinguishment is the best answer that I can give.

Since natural gas burns pretty clear, it is difficult to make it realistic. The realism comes when you or the lead instructor and set up the scenario, in real time to enhance the drill. Smoke it up, provide some victims (dummies of course), throw in a lost f/f or a RIT drill, sound the air horns, ask for PARS, have a new Lt. be the IC,

The beauty of the natural gas system is that once the fire is out, then it's not an idlh and it has "cold smoke". Now, we can use live firefighters inside as victims and incorporate other scenarios that we would not be able to with the class "A". Visit my site and hit my website for some pictures. Maybe this will help with ideas!

We also have about 1/2 million of exterior props, so we try and include them and provide many multi-company drills, especially at night. This always the credit for ISO, and the "coolness" factor when we fire these things up in the darkness.

Have the guys bring some camera's and get some good shots for the house.

Thanks for the input and stay safe,
Greg

PermalinkReply byJeremy KnightononMay 12, 2008 at 9:06pm

1 -我们获得两类成矿燃烧ding, with burn rooms on both floors. Owned by a local FD.
2- In NC you have to be qualified as a "Live fire Instructor”. Once you are qualified you can be a lead instructor. In order to conduct any "LFT" one Live Fire Instructor must be present, this is a mandate by the state as well as the Community College. After you complete this qualification you will assist in several "LFT" exercises before you lead one.
3- Most of the AHJ's in NC are fully aware of the state mandates and comply fully, most welcome it. In order to be qualified you must have the following:
-Must be General Level II Instructor for at least two years.
-Assist in at least five documented live burns with a live fire qualified instructor.
The qualification consists of the following:
70% or better on the Pre-test consisting of
- Fire Behavior
-Building Construction
-NFPA 1403
-NFPA 1142
-Permitting / Documentation
A 70% grade on classroom discussion.
a) NFPA 1403 and 1142 review.
b) Building construction review, training fires, leading crews.
c) Fire ground and training fire scenarios.

- A correct Pre-fire Plan that includes all components.
a) All necessary permits and paperwork.
b) Water calculations.
c) Fire ground layout.
d) Building layout.
e) Hazard mitigation.
- Completion of live fire evolutions (2 burns) with a score of 75 out of 75 points. (100%)
- 70% or better on the Post-test.

4- We are fully compliant; the Community College is very good about giving us as many instructors as we need to maintain the 5:1 instructor to student ratio. When using acquired structures we must notify the state 14 days prior, they will come audit the lead instructor if they so choose to ensure compliance.

PermalinkReply byDavid BullardonJune 10, 2008 at 10:03am

We use, at our department, a Class A fixed burn building, and with the State, a combination of Class A and B fixed burn buildings.

All instructors must complete the Georgia Structural Fire Control Instructor course. The lead instructor is then either chosen by our training division or if it is a state class, the lead instructor is a fire academy staff member.

All live fire training is done to 1403 standards. We have also begun to stress the new edition of 1404, with any low pressure alarm activation being grounds for immediate exit. ( No more letting students finish out or instructors hanging around a few more minutes )

PermalinkReply byRay McCormackonJune 10, 2008 at 10:52am

The decision on low air is a wise one. Students should always start the evolution with a full bottle. That being said if the low air alarm goes off the student should be escorted from the burn building by an instructor and proper notifications made to Lead, Accountability, and Safety instructors.

PermalinkReply byDavid BullardonJune 10, 2008 at 11:22am

我同意。如果我们表现出任何的坏习惯,他们将the ghosts that haunt our students lives tomorrow.

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