Impact of the UL Study on Ventilation and Fire Behavior

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永久链接Reply by史蒂夫·克伯（Steve Kerber）上2011年8月19日，下午12:46

Chief Norwood and others, If there is anything I can do to answer questions about the research please don't hesitate of ask. I will try to answer or point you in the right direction. Also don't forget about the online training program that is available athttp：//www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmat ...My team at UL and the firefighters on our advisory panel worked really hard to make the technical details in the report available in an interative format with videos and pictures to teach the tactical considerations. If you are limited in time or are looking for material for a drill go through the tactical considerations module of the online program. Be safe out there and remember you are not fighting your grandfathers fire anymore. - Steve Kerber, UL Fire Research

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永久链接Reply byJon B Fore上August 19, 2011 at 1:44pm

阅读此报告后，回到了我们甚至回应之前落后4分钟的Ole格言。不受约束的火灾增长是我们每天必须处理的持续障碍。作为消防员，我们必须了解问题并确定导致问题的原因。我已经从中学到了，我将与我们的人员分享本报告中的发现。

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永久链接Reply byP.J. Norwood上2011年8月19日下午2:35

史蒂夫，谢谢您的报价！没有您，您的同事和整个UL员工的尽职调查，我们甚至都不会进行对话！我非常感谢您为我们所有人提供帮助。

If there are any additional resources you can point us to we would greatly appreciate it. I have completed the on-line training program and would highly recommend it to everyone. If someone reading this can't not digest the entire report what would you recommend to them besides reading the Executive Summary and completing the on-line training? However, I am confident once anyone reads the summary and completes the on-line training they will make the time for the whole report because it is so crucial!

史蒂夫·克伯（Steve Kerber）said:

Chief Norwood and others, If there is anything I can do to answer questions about the research please don't hesitate of ask. I will try to answer or point you in the right direction. Also don't forget about the online training program that is available athttp：//www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/offerings/industries/buildingmat ...My team at UL and the firefighters on our advisory panel worked really hard to make the technical details in the report available in an interative format with videos and pictures to teach the tactical considerations. If you are limited in time or are looking for material for a drill go through the tactical considerations module of the online program. Be safe out there and remember you are not fighting your grandfathers fire anymore. - Steve Kerber, UL Fire Research

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永久链接Reply by埃德·哈丁（Ed Hartin）上August 20, 2011 at 9:27am

Excellent comments so far! I had the opportunity to serve on the technical panel for this study, so I had a head start on working through the data and important implications of this work. I have also reported on the study, report, and course on theCFBT-US blog我最近的帖子着重于扩大这项重要研究的战术含义。

我读过总结报告和补充道L on-line course based on the report to our department's training program with the addition of a short post test to ensure that our members had a solid understanding of the study and it's implications. Our tactics have not changed since the study (but changed prior to this work based on an understanding of the influence of ventilation on fire behavior, particularly under a ventilation controlled/limited burning regime). Work continues on developing multiple options for rapid application of water (particularly with limited staffing).

I believe that this study will have long term impact on the fire service, in fact the fire behavior, fire streams, ventilation, and fire control chapters of IFSTA Essentials 6th edition (currently under development) will integrate the tactical implications from this study. However, the near term impact is up to us! Encourage other firefighters to complete the on-line course, read the report, and integrate this important information into their work.

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永久链接Reply byRay Green上2011年8月20日，上午9:56

我仍在阅读这项研究，并试图提出一个凝结版本，以便在我的部门进行培训。作为阶梯公司的官员，我发现此信息非常有价值，并将其中一些纳入了我们的公司演习中。多年来，我们一直被教导要尽快开放建筑物。这项研究证明，更多通常不是更好。就我们的搜索操作而言，我们已经使用了定向搜索技术。现在，我将与我的船员一起使用1和两个故事结构的VES技术。

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永久链接Reply byKelly Wingert上August 21, 2011 at 11:12am

I've read a little bit but what I've really been waiting for is someone to do all the work and figure out the tactics. Should I take the window before we open the door to the house? Should I wait until the nozzle is at the fire room before opening a window? Does it matter if it is a single story or multi-storied building?

这些是我希望回答的问题。

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永久链接Reply by埃德·哈丁（Ed Hartin）上August 21, 2011 at 2:11pm

Kelly, There are no simple answers. It depends! While we can develop training programs, manuals, and books, this does not take the place of being a student of our craft. Each of us needs to understand the application of fire dynamics in the real world (practical fire dynamics).

Keep reading and thinking about how these concepts apply in your context. The building, fire load, and resources are all critical elements in answering important tactical questions.

As Massey Shaw (first chief of the Metropolitain London Fire Brigade) wrote in 1876; In order to carry on your business properly, it is necessary for those who practice it to understand not only what they have to do, but why they have to do it...No fireman can ever be considered to have attained a real proficiency in his business until he has thoroughly mastered this combination of theory and practice.

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永久链接Reply by史蒂夫·克伯（Steve Kerber）上August 21, 2011 at 3:46pm

诺伍德酋长，不幸的是，没有很多资源可以让消防员更好地了解火力动态。我很高兴哈丁酋长加入对话，因为他在获取研究结果并将其与实际事件和实践知识结合在一起方面做得很好。他的博客实际上是解释火灾策略的原因。NIST也有很多资源www.fire.gov. I was involved in the PPV research and the wind driven fire research. Both have alot of fire behavior lessons associated with them. If you have not recieved the training DVD's from NIST go to the website and request them.

在UL，我们目前正在总结两项研究。一个在地下室大火和倒塌危险上，另一个在屋顶安装的太阳能电池板系统的危险上。两者都应添加到www.ul.com/fireserviceby the end of the year. We are also in the beginning stages of starting a study on vertical ventilation.

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永久链接Reply byP.J. Norwood上August 21, 2011 at 8:12pm

你是酋长的好吗！不幸的是，我们不能通过阅读，观看DVD和参加教育讲座和课程来独自学习。没有替代者离开消防屋和训练！那就是我们每个人都可以每天学习真正有所不同的地方。

Chief, I echo Steve Kerber's words. I am very happy you have joined this discussion and we appreciate everything you have done and continue to do to help educate us all.

Feel free to get on a soap box here and give us all some of your opinions and learning points to this study. Many FF's and Officers I feel are not taking the time or just don't have the time (I know not a good excuse, but reality) to digest the entire study. So anything that you can provide here for them would be very beneficial.

谢谢你的努力工作和我appreciate you joining this conversation!

埃德·哈丁（Ed Hartin）said:

Kelly, There are no simple answers. It depends! While we can develop training programs, manuals, and books, this does not take the place of being a student of our craft. Each of us needs to understand the application of fire dynamics in the real world (practical fire dynamics).

Keep reading and thinking about how these concepts apply in your context. The building, fire load, and resources are all critical elements in answering important tactical questions.

As Massey Shaw (first chief of the Metropolitain London Fire Brigade) wrote in 1876; In order to carry on your business properly, it is necessary for those who practice it to understand not only what they have to do, but why they have to do it...No fireman can ever be considered to have attained a real proficiency in his business until he has thoroughly mastered this combination of theory and practice.

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永久链接Reply by迈克尔·多姆布罗斯基（Michael Dombroski）上August 21, 2011 at 8:26pm

Hi

This is an extremely interesting topic and I am also working my way through the report. I find it more interesting to engage in these discussions with my North American brothers, as our firefighting tactics differ in so many ways. We do not have "engine and truck companies". Therefore the first arriving unit decides what the priority tactic is to be. For house fires it is almost always getting water onto the fire before anything else (unless we see a victim in need of rescue). Ventilation is an area we consider as secondary to applying water. In fact often we will employ "anti-ventilation" until hose lines with sufficient flow rates are established prior to making any opening (including the front door). I have travelled to the USA on a study tour and the greatest difference in our operational tactics is the aggresive ventilation employed in the USA. I believe we have a lot to learn in that respect. I'm sure that we can do better at tactical ventilation and I think that the lack of ventilation may have contributed to injury for us in the past in some cases, so I'm certainly not saying we are any better, or even that we have got it right. I do note however, having examined the different "styles" (in the USA, Europe and at home) I think we can all learn from each other and that perhaps the aggresive ventilation employed by some may also have contributed to injury in the past and that anti-ventilation, or pausing the ventilation tactics may be advantages and prevent injury in some cases as well.

There is a fantastic book available called "Euro Firefighter" written by Paul Grimwood. He examines this topic in some detail and offers his perspective from experience in the UK and the USA. I highly recommend his book. He is truely an expert in relation to fire fighting tactics.

我们是一个全球社区，正如我发现的那样，可以通过外面看和对别人的行为有开放的想法来学习很多东西。我期待进行讨论，并从中学习我能做什么。

亲切的问候

迈克d

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永久链接Reply byP.J. Norwood上August 21, 2011 at 8:27pm

凯利，我同意哈丁酋长的观点，因为没有绝对。但是，我将补充说，如果您像往常一样领先线，则必须与软管团队进行协调。现在，这并不意味着他们必须在广播中给您打电话！

从我的通风板视频中查看Fire Engineering/Penwell的战术视角系列的剪188金宝搏是正规吗辑：http://community.fireengineering.com/video/video/show?id=1219672%3A...

当您看到或听到迹象表明软管团队到位和/或流水时，然后打开窗户。观看此出色的视频：http://community.fireengineering.com/video/video/show?id=1219672%3A...

您还要质疑您是否在窗户前打开门。这绝对没有绝对的东西，因为您必须能够阅读建筑物（建筑和火负荷），并确定火势正在移动或将移动以及软管团队进入的位置。您必须记住任何您打开的东西都是通风，火就会生长。这是一把我们必须理解的双刃剑，我们需要让我们的FF和官员了解通风必须协调，并且必须领先于前进的霍斯利线。

Check out my videos posted on my page in this community also check out this video in its entirety and it may help you with some of the tactical elements you are looking for:http://www.pennwellbooks.com/tapebdvd3ve.htmlhere is a trailer on you tube:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4QxVGBn130

凯利·温特说：

I've read a little bit but what I've really been waiting for is someone to do all the work and figure out the tactics. Should I take the window before we open the door to the house? Should I wait until the nozzle is at the fire room before opening a window? Does it matter if it is a single story or multi-storied building?

这些是我希望回答的问题。

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永久链接Reply byP.J. Norwood上August 21, 2011 at 8:41pm

Mike, do you have the information to post so if anyone is interested in purchasing it?

迈克尔·多姆布罗斯基（Michael Dombroski）said:

Hi

This is an extremely interesting topic and I am also working my way through the report. I find it more interesting to engage in these discussions with my North American brothers, as our firefighting tactics differ in so many ways. We do not have "engine and truck companies". Therefore the first arriving unit decides what the priority tactic is to be. For house fires it is almost always getting water onto the fire before anything else (unless we see a victim in need of rescue). Ventilation is an area we consider as secondary to applying water. In fact often we will employ "anti-ventilation" until hose lines with sufficient flow rates are established prior to making any opening (including the front door). I have travelled to the USA on a study tour and the greatest difference in our operational tactics is the aggresive ventilation employed in the USA. I believe we have a lot to learn in that respect. I'm sure that we can do better at tactical ventilation and I think that the lack of ventilation may have contributed to injury for us in the past in some cases, so I'm certainly not saying we are any better, or even that we have got it right. I do note however, having examined the different "styles" (in the USA, Europe and at home) I think we can all learn from each other and that perhaps the aggresive ventilation employed by some may also have contributed to injury in the past and that anti-ventilation, or pausing the ventilation tactics may be advantages and prevent injury in some cases as well.

There is a fantastic book available called "Euro Firefighter" written by Paul Grimwood. He examines this topic in some detail and offers his perspective from experience in the UK and the USA. I highly recommend his book. He is truely an expert in relation to fire fighting tactics.

我们是一个全球社区，正如我发现的那样，可以通过外面看和对别人的行为有开放的想法来学习很多东西。我期待进行讨论，并从中学习我能做什么。

亲切的问候

迈克d

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