Staffing???

Replies to This Discussion

PermalinkReply by保罗LomskeonMarch 18, 2008 at 11:28pm

It's not acceptable for safety or common sense.

In the vollie world, unsafe staffing and response is acceptable due to:
-pride
-intimidation from mutual aid departments. "Had to bail your a**es outagain".
-short staffed department not investigating why they lose members or aren't getting new ones.

嘉联易部门米ay run short due to:
-again, pride.
-not asking for help from other full-time or vollie departments. "We can take care of oru own fires".
-not being aggressive enough as a group/whole to make sure government understands the staffing needs and provides for it.

Others that can be listed, but these are the main ones to me.

PermalinkReply byMichael GavinonMarch 30, 2008 at 4:25pm

I think because the general public does not realize that putting out a fire usually requires more than putting water on it. the fail to realize search and rescue, securing an adequate water supply, ventilation takes man power. They feel their staffing is adequate at 1 &1 or 1 & 2. If a fatality does happen, staffing is rarely mentioned because the person speaks up gets hammered down. In the metro Boston area most towns do not hesitate to go to higher alarms to get mutual aid for man power. We all like to have competition, but when it gets serious like you said "tired of bailing you out" its time to take them aside and have a talk. They should be grateful you invited them to their job and let them work. With fires being down, who cares where or what town it is, its time to put your skills to you to keep from getting rusty.

PermalinkReply byChris Pepleron2008年3月30日下午6:51

It kills me that people are willing to roll the dice with public safety!!!!!!! We do not tell the Police how many Patrolman they do or don't need. We do not dictate how many teachers there should be per school system. It appears that our profession takes the brunt of poor staffing. WHY US?????????

PermalinkReply byMichael GavinonMarch 30, 2008 at 9:14pm

We are the grunts of public safety. I think it goes back to people not know exactly what we do. Our Ems is a seperate entity. We are dispached along with them to priority calls. We usually get there first due to their call volume and we have more apparatus available. Cpr, defib, first aid, extrication ect gets over looked. They dont realize we save lives that doesnt involve fires. Im not knocking any specific agency, but when some thing goes wrong be it meth lab or some other kind of multi agency activity we get the dangerous work from hazmat to decon. Police numbers will never go down. Crime is still up hire more cops. It makes people feel good when they hire more cops. It does not matter when the cut our funding until a family gets killed becuase companies get closed and we get laid off. Im not cop bashing at all but that is what the govt does. We are #2

PermalinkReply byChris PepleronApril 3, 2008 at 6:28am

It seems to me that small departments are their own worse enemy. As firefighter we have that get it done no matter what mentality, and we do get it done. In a negotiation meeting the city personnel director told me "the fires are going out and nobody is getting hurt, so your manpower is just fine". They actually use us against ourselves. That pump operator should not have to leave his pump! What a profession! Going to have to change the name of this group to staffing........

PermalinkReply byChris PepleronApril 3, 2008 at 7:28am

Hey Brother,
I am with you on the minimal manpower we show up with 10. Our drivers tend to be the utility players doing a little bit of everything trying to help the interior guys anyway possible. Our drivers would do the same thing as you stated for example. Too many tasks need to be performed simultaneously!!

PermalinkReply byMichael GavinonApril 3, 2008 at 9:20pm

We respond with a staffed 3 1&3 Engines & 2 1&3 Ladders to a structure. Getting a ladder to the structure with 1 person and then putting them with the engine crew again is a bad idea. There is no point to bring the truck. Use your 28 footer. Water is a nescesity, but so is ventilation and search and rescue. We all have to improvise at times but if that pump decides to throttle itself down because it feels like it, no operator watching the dials, he's venting someone is going to get hurt. Ive seen pumps, especially the new electronic throttles decide to go into "idle" and stop pumping. Our out lying towns run 1 & 2, but then drain the towns full fire resources if its a structure fire. Then mutual aid is called in to cover or sent to the fire. Running short is a dangerous gamle.

PermalinkReply byMichael GavinonApril 6, 2008 at 9:47am

I understand due to the man power and the need for water. We had a fire in mutual aide town where the house was about 200 yards of the main road. The chief went right up the alarms though. To us getting some one to the roof is exremely important. Im guilty of grabing a rake now an then and doing some outside ventilation to get some work but only to vent for visibilty. I wont start breaking random windows having no idea where the fire is. Its just sad that a loss of life has to occur before someone realizes we need more staffing.

PermalinkReply byChris Flemingon2008年7月20日下午12:20

我认为我们的许多“技术进步”在两种方面都削减了。例如，全力以赴脚趾保护是消防员遇到的唯一机会，但所有的保护都阻止了他或她发现一些闪存的迹象！由于我们可以使用该装备进一步进一步移动，因此下一个错误的结论是，我们不需要所有人员来发泄，搜索，伸展适当的软管线等。但是，我们正在经历更危险的“火”事件“比以往任何时候。它的一部分是燃料负荷和紧密的结构，但是其中一些缺乏人员来获得我们需要完成的所有策略。在我们最需要做的时候，“使建筑物行为”的重要性丢失了。布兰尼根（Brannigan）写道，今天的消防员是“烟战斗机”，因为他是最早意识到，当今的建筑和射击力是烟雾是燃料。除非我们有配备人员去除燃料（即通风液），否则消防员将爬进危险接近点火的燃料中间。话虽如此，消防队长应归功于消防员，以确保他或她的SOG与他们的人员配备水平相匹配。如果您只有6个人出现在大火中，则必须清楚地定义，并且不确定这六名消防员可以安全地完成什么。 A big part of this is defining what is a "known life hazard" and drawing a clear line in between what is considered a "viable" victim and what isn't. Remeber, as soon as you put firefighters in a burning building you have actually ADDED to the life hazard profile of that incident. Make your tactics to meet your staffing until you get the staffing to perform the tactics.

PermalinkReply byMichael GavinonJuly 20, 2008 at 7:58pm

We actualy recently had a row of taxpayers, heavy fire showing from a restaraunt on arrivival(We were first due). People were yelling some ran back inside. I was on the pipe and I made no attempt to run into that bldg. No one could have survived in there. I have taken a flash over class/simulator. Which put in things into a better prespective than just hearing about it. Training is extremely important. I dont think anybody else in the dept has.

Mike Gavin
Engine Co. 41

PermalinkReply byChris FlemingonJuly 20, 2008 at 8:18pm

I couldn't agree more! Having done the flashover simulator at FDIC, I think I have a much better handle of what is survivable and what isn't. You are sitting BELOW the floor of the fire and it's still damn hot! Understanding fire behavior is a huge part of size up and making the decision as far as what your attack mode is going to be. This is where alot of us newer guys really have to be careful. We don't experience the fires the guys did in the "War Years", so we don't have as much first hand experience in reading what a fire is doing and where it's going. On top of it, (I'm beating a dead horse here) we are so insulated and protected from the environment in a burning building that we can't recognize the few signs the fire gives you that it's about to bite you. One thing we do have going for us is the ability to train, whether in person or on line. A guy from my crew just got promoted to Lt. and was having a hard time with his initial on scene reports and size up. So we spent an afternoon doing on line simulations, sizing up photos and videos from FE. By the end of the day he became more comfortable "Reading" what was going on and deciding what the first in companies had to do. It's not perfect, but if you do what you can every little bit helps. Stay safe, Mike.
Chris Fleming

PermalinkReply byMichael GavinonJuly 20, 2008 at 10:11pm

Always go back to the basics, fire showing, smoke showing, investigating!!